Oct 182010
Yeesh.
More intellectually disabled youths go to college
Short form: colleges are accepting more and more students with Downs syndrome. Colleges are gettign Federal funds to accept more students with Downs syndrome. Colleges are putting Downs sydrome students in regular classes, and are modifying the classes to make them easier for those with Downs syndrome.
24 Responses to “Lib-Arts Majors Of Tomorrow”
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And, this proves my contention that college diplomas are quickly becoming the equivalent of what a high school diploma used to be (and they are heading down hill fast).
You appear to believe that Downs Syndrome automatically makes a person an imbecile. I wonder how many Downs people you actually know? Like all such conditions there is a vast range of intellectual abilities associated with it. I interact with Downs people on a weekly basis. Your comment is the sort of thing I’d expect from ignorance, and of course the usual right-wing uncaring viewpoint one finds here.
I have a friend whose new daughter is a Downs baby. She expects the child never to keep up with everyone else. I worked with several Downs teens one winter; none of them could quite function without lots of attention. They were pleasant and hard-working, but I would not trust any of them to make long-term or complicated decisions. The real world seldom matches the hopes of social workers.
Again, there is a large range of abilities in Downs people. Claiming they are all stupid or incapable is like suggesting all Americans are right-wing facists or all Europeans are left-wing communists. Hardly realistic, not terribly representative and definitely not true. Its just as true for Downs people.
> there is a large range of abilities in Downs people.
What percentage of Downs people exceed the population average in terms of intellect?
PS: “right wing fascist” is a contradiction in terms. Like a “right wing communist” or a “left wing libertarian.”
Fascism is a right-wing ideology.
You appear to be assuming that education is something that is only reserved to elites. Often that elite status is determined more by personal wealth than intellectual ability.
> Fascism is a right-wing ideology.
Fascism is a *left* wing ideology. Compare the 1933 Nazi Party Platform to standard Leftwing desires: http://up-ship.com/blog/blog/?p=5701
When fascism first burst onto the stage in the 1920’s, many in the western Left saw it as a happy medium between the capitalist systems and communism.
The only thing that supposedly separates fascism from what the left likes to think of itself is fascisms inheirant nationalism. But I’d hardly call the likes of the Soviets, the ChiComs or Cuba non-nationalist.
> education is something that is only reserved to elites
Education, like physical excercise, is something that should be done for and at the level of the individual. As previously discussed, many students would be better off out of class by sixth grade or so. Not every student would benefit from a *real* college education. People are *not* equal.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism
http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Fascism
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/fascist
US Military Dictionary – http://www.answers.com/topic/fascism
“fascism
n. 1. an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.
2. (in general use) extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practice. The term fascism was first used of the totalitarian right-wing nationalist regime of Benito Mussolini in Italy (1922-43), and the regime of the Nazis in Germany were also Fascist. Fascism tends to include a belief in the supremacy of one national or ethnic group, a contempt for democracy, an insistence on obedience to a powerful leader, and a strong demagogic approach.”
Oxford Dictionary Online – http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/fascism?view=uk :
“fascism (fas|cism)
Pronunciation:/ˈfaʃɪz(ə)m, -sɪz(ə)m/
noun
an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization
*
(in general use) extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practices
The term Fascism was first used of the totalitarian right-wing nationalist regime of Mussolini in Italy (1922–43); the regimes of the Nazis in Germany and Franco in Spain were also Fascist. Fascism tends to include a belief in the supremacy of one national or ethnic group, a contempt for democracy, an insistence on obedience to a powerful leader , and a strong demagogic approach”
These are just a small selection of the definitions I found online about what Fascism _is_. It is clear that it _is_not_ a Left-Wing ideology, despite what you claim.
You seem to be using a very peculiar, very personal series of definitions that you appear to make up as you go along. Without an agreed upon framework, it appears that conversations with you will remain somewhat idiosyncratic.
> Education, like physical excercise, is something that should be done for and at the level of the individual. As previously discussed, many students would be better off out of class by sixth grade or so. Not every student would benefit from a *real* college education. People are *not* equal.
You appear to be suggesting that because of a pre-existing genetic condition, all Downs syndrome people should be denied access to education on the basis that, in your view, Downs syndrome people are by definition “dumb”.
You’re not allowing people to be educated to “the level of the individual”. Your views on education, like most of what you write are contradictory and based it appears more upon personal ignorance than anything else.
You appear to be assuming that education is something that is only reserved to elites. Often that elite status is determined more by personal wealth than intellectual ability.
Err… no. We’re assuming that education is something that should be reserved to those who actually have the ability to *educate* themselves. Nobody said jack sh*t about their financial status.
“You appear to be suggesting that because of a pre-existing genetic condition, all Downs syndrome people should be denied access to education on the basis that, in your view, Downs syndrome people are by definition “dumb”.”
Hey, if someone with Downs can successfully complete a college degree that *hasn’t* been deliberately dumbed down so that social workers can pat themselves on the back for handing some poor kid not intelligent enough to know he’s been snookered a meaningless piece of sheepskin – a piece of sheepskin that has been *made* meaningless by the actions of the bleeding-heart social workers who gave it to him – then that particular Downs individual is quite welcome to attempt a college degree. Do you know any Downs individuals like that? I’ve never heard of one.
Oh, and has anyone thought of what dumbing down the curriculum so that a Downs kid can complete it does to the *normal* kids who are asked to sacrifice a quality education so that one Downs kid will feel good about an achievement he hasn’t earned anyway? Why is it that the able and the competent are always asked to give up the pursuit of their lives, their happiness, without even the consolation that those they sacrifice *for* will even get the thing they were promised the sacrifice would gain them?
> You seem to be using a very peculiar, very personal series of definitions…
Nope. once again, read the Nazi Party Platform and tell me how that it’s insistence upon collectivization is more Right Wing Republican than Left Wing Democrat.
People have made the mistake of assuming that the Nazis were right wing because they’ve been *told* the Nazis were right wing, without doing sufficient analysis of what right and left means. Now, perhaps in Europe “right wing” means “giant government with socialized industry and universal health care,” but that’s not what “right wing” means to Americans, And guess what, Chuckles… this is an American blog. I’ll no more use a European political dictionary than I’ll spell “program” with a superfluous “me” appended to it.
> You’re not allowing people to be educated to “the level of the individual”.
I’m not allowing, or disallowing, anybody from doing any damned thing. Once again you’ve mistaken a blog posting for some national policy.
Fascists believe in individual ownership of the means of production. That means they are right-wing.
Appears to me that the BrianR is right. You use weird definitions completely different to the rest of the world.
Its interesting seeing someone taken in by Nazi propaganda so long after the Nazis have been destroyed. Herr Goebbels must be chuckling happily to himself in his own private little hell.
The attitude to people with Downs is so typical of right-wingers who seem to have been born without an empathy gene in their bodies. One wonders how they act if their kids were born with it?
> Fascists believe in individual ownership of the means of production.
And fascists believe in government control of the owners and direct direction of the production line.
That means they are left-wing.
Guys,
Fascism is right-wing, but fascism is not the same as nazism. Nazism is national socialism, a mix of extreme left-wing (socialism) and right-wing (nationalism/fascism).
And what makes fascism “right wing?” The basic precepts of it are to bundle the citizenry together, to “order the society,” for the better good. While that stinks to Valhalla of leftism, it sounds pretty alien to any description of right-wing in use in the USA.
BrianR: If I pay tens of thousands of dollars for a degree I want my money’s worth. I don’t want it dumbed down for the least common denomenator just so we can all feel warm and tingly. If there are DS afflicted that can hack it, great. More power to them. Of course we weren’t talking about that group now were we?
I paid $21,000 for a degree that turned out to be nothing more than a play to play for bored housewives and a way for the line workers to get $3000/year raises when they get to be supervisor. I learned damn near nothing in the process of getting that degree. I was misled intentionally by the reputation of the university and by the marketing clowns at the university. That program, to me, is “dumbed down” for the same reason that the DS folk will have their degree programs reduced. This is no reflection on anyone with Downs; it’s a reflection on those who would have us all with the same credentials by their having total disregard for the value of the credentials.
The assistant pastor at my church in a wheelchair mobile lady with cerebral palsy.
Contrary to common opinion, cerebral palsy does not make a person stupid. It would have been very difficult for her to get her degree in psychology and pass seminary ( let alone become an ordained minister ) if she were.
Just so that’s clear.
Ken
@Ken – Who was even talking about cerebral palsy?
Interesting. As the parent of a child with disabilities–he has Asperger Syndrome and his intellect is not the disability–but it was my policy never to lie to him or pretend that reality is anything other than it is. Every person, gifted or mentally retarded, has something that he can do in the world, but they are not the same things. Although many people with AS get Ph.D.’s, my son is not academically inclined. Writing, a skill requiring sequenced thinking, is very hard for him. But he is great at drawing, music and designing tools. These individual differences make the world go ’round.
About this comment: ““You appear to be suggesting that because of a pre-existing genetic condition, all Downs syndrome people should be denied access to education . . .”:
This is an over-reaction. To suggest that if someone needs for the college curriculum content to be altered substantially, he might not belong in university is not at all the same as denying access to education. There are plenty of other educationally opportunities available that are likely a better fit.
Further, this particular genetic problem (trisomy), creates many characteristic alterations in physical and intellectual development. Although there is a range of variation among the Downs population with respect to intellect, the norm of that range is much lower than the norm of the general population. That is reality, and just as I am limited because of a genetic condiction so that I cannot play most sports, so are they limited due to theirs. I could demand that the game of basketball be slowed down considerably, so that I could participate, but I think it is much wiser to enjoy the precision and prowess of a really good athlete from the stands while pursuing endeavors more suited to my talents. (I love watching basketball and do not feel at all bad that I cannot play the game).
There are two things wrong with this kind of strategy:
1) it denies differences and variation among people; and
2) it is a pretense and a lie that will ultimately devalue the diplomas that these colleges hand out.
I have had a good deal of contact with Downs and other severe disabilities, though my specialty is the neurospychology of autism. Most of the Downs kids I have met are reasonably happy, and now that we do a lot of early intervention, most of them go on to live longer and very productive lives. Are they all happy? I don’t know. But happiness is often a function of playing the cards one is dealt very well.
Autistic people might have problems in some areas but they are definitely
not stupid either.
Autistic people may not be stupid… but then, neither are they the subject of this post or the news item its based on. People with *intellectual* deficiencies are.
Sending people with Downs to college is kinda like putting paraplegics on the football team. Sure, it can be done, but in order to make it work, the rest of the team will need to be Harrison Bergeroned. Or ytou’ll need to set up a special paraplegic football team. Which, again, is certainyl possible… but don’t make the mistake of believing that that team would be the equivalent of the regular team.
Lessee, what else…
Deaf Glee Club
Semaphore For The Blind
100 Yard Comatose Dash