Jun 292012
 

America’s most wanted paedophile wins fight to stop extradition from UK on grounds it will breach his human rights to be put into a sex offenders’ treatment programme

Translation: if the US simply promises to put a criminal in a “treatment” program, the Brits will hold onto them forever. So, the implication is clear: we can empty the violent types out of our prisons into supertankers, drive them over to Britain, dump them off… and they are no longer our problem. We just need to promise that we might put them into open-ended treatment programs if they ever come back.

 Posted by at 9:37 am
  • Doug

    The funny thing is, the Brits “invented” indefinite detention. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At_Her_Majesty's_Pleasure

  • Michael the Somewhat Civilized

    I can imagine lots of legal problems with your idea, Scott, but no moral ones.

    I’m not sure how he got to the UK. I guess guys like that have lots of money. All his Irish passport gives him is the right to be in Ireland (and, presumably, by some sort of extension, the entire EU).

    • Anonymous

      > I can imagine lots of legal problems with your idea

      I can’t.

      Britain is one of those nations that loaded itself up with “refugees” and such from former Colonial holdings, and patted itself on the back for being such a good bleeding heart. Well, here’s an opportunity to load up with even *more* refugees from a former Colony. Not only that, the Brit intelligencia can use this as a time to gin up even more hatred of America, by claiming that they are helping out people who otherwise would be oppressed by mean ol’ Uncle Sam.

      • Jordan

        It’s a good idea considering Britain is willing to harbor and keep our fugitives. I really don’t see any legal problems with your idea since Britain has already established its opinion with this extradition case. I’d expect after this they would welcome our criminals, especially the violent ones who claim human rights violations.

        The funny thing is all we’d have to do to get the guy back is to say and present “evidence” that he molested and had sex with boys and then he’d see how willing the Brits would be to keep him — I’d expect him back in this country within 24 hours, if not a lot sooner.. If the Brits want this guy, then let them have him!

        I guess in Britain, if you violate someone else’s human rights you’re safe from being prosecuted as a criminal if you claim your human rights are being violated!

  • Spacepilotuk

    Alright, time for the “Brit View” again! Firstly, I believe that the treaty under which we gave Eire (that is, southern Ireland) independance lets Irish citizens come here without a passport. Secondly, we are signatories to the UN treaty on refugees, dreamed up afte WWII for the benefit of people escaping from dictatorships – it was never meant to cover everything that it’s being stretched to! Thirdly, the last Labour government signed us up to the European Convention on Human Rights, which keeps getting stretched by lawyers and judges – most of us would love to see Abu Hamza sent back to Jordan, but the lawyers keep trying weird new manouevres to let him stay…I believe it was him who, when asked why he wanted to stay here if Britain is such a filthy, infidel country, used the analogy of “a toilet in the middle of a minefield” (!) It may, of course, be pure coincidence that Mrs Cherie Blair, wife of ex-PM Tony Blair, in her professional guise of Ms Cherie Booth QC, stated a law firm, Matrix Chambers, specialising in human rights law.
    Now, the thing that annoys a lot of people, as the article says, is that Gary McKinnon, must apparently be extradited to the US, and this paedophile can’t be! Actually, since Gary McKinnon hacked USAF and NASA computers in search of proof of ETs and UFOs, jailing him will just start the conspiracy theories on what he found – and I think some court-martials are in order, since he got into USAF and NASA nets by writing a program to find people who hadn’t changed their user names and passwords from the default “username” and “password”!
    Grif

    • Anonymous

      > I believe that the treaty under which we gave Eire (that is, southern Ireland) independance lets Irish citizens come here without a passport.

      Isn’t that true for pretty much all of the EU? Meaning, some scumbag gains entrance into the EU, they can then go wherever they like in the EU without a passport? That’s as it is in the US… but American States aren’t generally claimed to be separate sovereign nations.

      > Gary McKinnon, must apparently be extradited to the US

      I remain baffled about the outrage over extraditing him. Apparently there’s no contention that he did what’s claimed, and what he did is clearly a violation of a whole lot of laws. Using Asperger’s as an excuse is stupid; Asperger’s does not delete your ability to tell right from wrong.

      From the US perspective, it would be better to extradite McKinnon than the pedo, since the pedo can no longer harm Americans, while McKinnon could.

      • Anonymous

        “From the US perspective, it would be better to extradite McKinnon than the pedo, since the pedo can no longer harm Americans, while McKinnon could.”

        You don’t speak for all Americans and it shows YOUR perspective, which I can only disapprove of.

        • Anonymous

          > YOUR perspective, which I can only disapprove of.

          Why?

          • Grif

            Well, the main thing about the Gary McKinnon affair is the rather one-sided extradition agreement. Apparently, we have to provide cast-iron proof to get a US citizen extradited to Britain, but the US authorities only have to provide “reasonable grounds” to get a British subject extradited to America. Now, that’s simplified; I’m not a lawyer, and what seems like plain English to you or I can mean something else entirely to a lawyer. Further, while I agree that Asperger’s syndrome does not reduce the ability to tell right from wrong (at least, I don’t think it does with me – I strongly suspect that I have the syndrome myself) it can alter one’s notions of what constitutes the greater good. McKinnon may well have felt that revealing the “truth” about what the American government “knows” re UFOs justified his breaking into NASA and USAF computers. He didn’t actually intend to hurt anyone – I admit that he did screw up said networks for a while, but I don’t think that compares for sheer evil to a paedophile. There is concern that McKinnon would never survive incarceration in the US penal system, either by suicide or psychological disintegration. OK, “can’t do the time, don’t do the crime”, but he may not have been able to realise that.
            It has been said that patriotism is not a belief that one’s own country is the best, but a personal commitment to make that country better. There are any number of things wrong with Britain right now, and one of them is our inability to get rid of the scumbags who come here for sanctuary – and we support them with Social Security payments! Sigh…if you’d like a look at the things that can go on in local government in my home ton, take a look at a blog called “Bexley Is Bonkers”. BTW, did you get that link to that German rocketry site that I e-mailed to you?
            Scott, I love my country as much as you love yours, and I like America almost as much as Britain!
            Grif

          • Anonymous

            > the rather one-sided extradition agreement

            Why would that be? I.E. why wold the Britguv sign up for something like that?

            >it can alter one’s notions of what constitutes the greater good.

            Pretty irrelevant. There are a *lot* of criminal acts that would be for the greater good… everything from the extreme Libertarian who decides to not pay his taxes anymore to the extreme Anarchist who decides to blow up Parliament.

            > McKinnon may well have felt that revealing the “truth” about what the American government “knows” re UFOs justified his breaking into NASA and USAF computers.

            And I might feel that hacking some left-wing political groups accounts and emptying out their funds into my own bank account would be justified…. but it would still be illegal, and anyone trying to use Aspergers to defend it would be some kind of a nut.

            > I don’t think that compares for sheer evil to a paedophile.

            Agreed. That’s why I think it’s ok to bring McKinnon over here… and leave the pedo over *there.* Face it: even when you have no knowledge or relationship with anyone involved, distance makes news stories less relevant to you. And being halfway around the planet makes the pedo less relevant. And hey, if y’all want him, then that’s less of a tax burden for me and mine, as well as less of a threat.

            > There are any number of things wrong with Britain right now

            Indeed there are. And many in the US want to adopt the very polices that have done so much to damage Britain. Thus y’all are a dire warning for the US, and are worthy of occasional note.

          • Grif

            Why would that be? I.E. why wold the Britguv sign up for something like that?

            Good question…which a lot of us would like an answer to! One theory is that Tony Blair, who seemed to have no real principles except a desire for power, figured that one way to gain influence on the world stage was to “find out what the Americans want and give it to them”, regardless of whether it was good for Britain. No offense intended, Scott…after all, we’re both citizens of free societies, and can debate such things freely – for now! I’ll get back to that in a minute…
            As to there being a lot of things wrong with Britain right now, to quote the fictional “Bulldog” Drummond: “It is obvious to anyone with eyes to see that there are a few things in this dear old country of ours which are perhaps not quite as they should be. I am naive enough to hope that with time, effort, and goodwill we can and shall put them right.”
            Finally, one of those “dire warnings”: I have to read your blog at the cyber-cafe at the moment, rather than on the public-use computers at the library, because you’re currently blocked for “profanity”. This has happened before, and you might not have even really used a naughty word, just something that looked like it – I once tried to access the site of a wargames publisher named “Wessex Games”, only to find it blocked as “Sex Site” – the computer seems to have picked up on the syllable “sex”! The sinister thing is, that “Bexley is Bonkers” site, which criticises our local council, is also blocked, no reason given. That scares me…
            Grif

          • Anonymous

            > Tony Blair, who seemed to have no real principles except a desire for power

            Welcome to politics.

            > . I am naive enough to hope that with time, effort, and goodwill we can and shall put them right.”

            A nice dream. But look at the trends: are things “turning around?” I dunno. But realistically, unless things are improving, they’re getting worse.

            > you’re currently blocked for “profanity”

            That’s odd. While some entertaining profanity pops up from time to time in the comments section, I endeavor to keep the main posts pretty lean of such colorful metaphots. ‘course, since you’re in Britain, perhaps it reads “guns are fun” as an obscene statement.

  • P.J.

    The problem with the treatment program is it isn’t really aimed at treatment as there really isn’t any reasonable treatment for certain sex-offenders. So, the idea is to detain them (potentially) for the rest of their life so they can’t hurt anybody.

    In the general practice, it works like this. A person is prosecuted for pedophilia, is convicted, and sent to jail. They serve out their time, and then are civilly committed. When they were being tried, convicted and jailed, they were very much considered sane, but after they were held in jail they are now conveniently considered insane.

    Personally it should either be dealt with by the mental-health system or the criminal justice system (in the latter case you’d have sentences like 5 to life so if they are assessed to no longer be a threat, they get released, and if not they stay locked up) but only one for the circumstance.